Hey, that was me. Median not wide enough for a true viaduct? So we really have to make the most out of the small extensions for now. I thought that was my craziest but. In 1977, the fight to save Utica Union Station and the Adirondack Railway's plans to reopen the abandoned Utica-Lake Placid line prompted formation of the Utica & Mohawk Valley Chapter. Given the upfront costs of building it that seems like a waste (yes, 2nd Ave only hits that with the Q but it is at least designed to add the T later on). Also, that wasnt a smart move, moving the 3 and 5 so that all local trains past Franklin Av are linked up together, and all express trains past Franklin Av are linked until Utica, except ones local and the others still express.Most passangers at Flatbush Av( I should know, this is part of my daily commute) Viaducts where possible. If we build to IND station size (while making easily-removable platforms extensions that allow the platforms to be disabled accessible to IRT trains) wouldnt that allow the subway to easily expand capacity once they find the money to make an IND connection or just convert the IRT to the IND gauge? This station has two fare control areas, one at either end. Lest I bring on comparisons to Robert Moses I would like to point out that on the western side of Utica Ave, from the Bay Ridge Line to Flatbush Ave, there are exactly 9 residential buildings. I think I can solve that problem and still have a train servicing East NY&Brownsville, Mill Basin, and Flatbush/East Flatbush. Look at the ceiling from the open platform, and at the mezzanine area at the north end. [2] The Reid Avenue El station, which was originally named Utica Avenue and was formerly above the current subway station, closed on May 31, 1940.[5]. The big attraction to politicians of boring subways instead of cut-and-cover is that it removes so much uncertainty. station count on BWY7 and 8AV between 110th and 72nd. But this does not deal with the immediate needs of those that live along Utica Ave. Building an extension of the IRT could be opened long before the section through northern Brooklyn and would have immediate benefits by serving more riders with direct service rather than requiring transferring. It will meet up with 6 of the 9 trains going to Atlantic Barclays but earlier. For example, why build a Lafayette Av branch off of Crosstown when instead a cheap connection between the (G)/(J)/(M) could be built at Broadway. [14] The line was to be extended along Flatbush Avenue and Eastern Parkway to Buffalo Street as a four-track subway line, and then along East 98th Street and Livonia Avenue to New Lots Avenue as an elevated two-track line, with provisions for the addition of a third track. and weekends the 5 doesnt go to Brooklyn. The point of Utica Ave is that riders are trying to get downtown so who would ever ride the 4 all the way out just to switch to the A when they could have just gotten on the A at the first place. Planning may have actually begun. Off-center over roadway. Trains descending the ramp can access either the local or express track.[22]. Finnaly, the IRT Utica Av doesnt have the provisions for having a IND Utica Av, so either one of two plans will have to happen: 1- Build a Eastern Pkwy Station under the 3/4 and have a steep incline back up to Empire Blvd so it can be able to portal out wherever (originally I thought it was going to portal out at Empire Blvd but I guess im wrong). And on what route? The MTA would then lease the land as a way to bring in continued revenue and the new development would help pay for the construction. I disagree that people can just simply take a bus, but extending the Nostrand Av line south is needed. Yet youd have it built to B division clearances. The incident happened inside the Utica Avenue subway station in Brooklyn on Christmas Eve. Thanks for listening Vanshnooken! from those two subway stations Charlestown USA Outlet Mall (Utica) This old, abandoned, former mill site was once one of the first shopping centers to locate in the Mohawk Valley. IRT Utica only needs a simple switch added to Rogers Junction to start running. Make no little plans, Daniel Burnham is purported to have said, they have no magic to stir mens blood. I grant you C outright; shorter trains being more maneuverable in yards. Going further the stations could even be built by private developers who would get a height bonus for building the station. Now we dont want that, do we? something like that on pillars in refurbished station? The Utica provisions at Fulton are on the upper level and cross perpendicular to the lower platforms. Go for a Allows handicap access via one elevator instead of three. and Park Aves commuter train viaduct looks good all the time. Using the IRT as the basis for a Utica Avenue line is much more feasible. 57 is also proposed at Utica avenue from Eastern parkway to Flatbush avenue. The new trains would be served by trains from Seventh Avenue. Past Clarendon Rd the line would split with two tracks peeling east to a new yard facility built along the LIRR Bay Ridge line (requiring land taking). They are not evenly shared. Same with Crown Heights-Utica Av. If connected to the Second Avenue subway I feel that could provide another East Side alternative for passengers and help relieve pressure from the IRT lines. When the IRT built the Eastern Parkway Line between 1915 and 1918 they built into it a provision for a future branch down Utica Ave (the IRT, in fact, built its entire Brooklyn section with many provisions for future expansion that either never happened or ended up being built by a competing company). PABT-Times Square awkward? I agree with you that IRT was sized small for a reason, Tyler. Eastern Py Utica Av. This leaves the possibility of resurrecting the Worth St Line, a branch off the 8th Ave local that would split south of Canal St and head east via Worth St and East Broadway. blend into hilly terrain. Begins Service on Eastern Parkway and Nostrand Avenue Lines", "Annual Report of the Interborough Rapid Transit Company For The Year Ended June 30, 1921", "Agency Lists Its 69 Most Deteriorated Subway Stations", "www.nycsubway.org: New York City Subway Track Maps", "Artwork: Good Morning, Good Night (Hugo Consuegra)", "Transit Outlook Bright in Brooklyn: First Branch Lines on Assessment Plan Likely to be Built in That Borough", "Finds Many Unused Subway Tunnels Under City Streets", "Mayor de Blasio Revives Plan for a Utica Avenue Subway Line", Crown Heights Utica Avenue (IRT Eastern Parkway Line), Crown HeightsUtica Avenue (IRT Eastern Parkway Line), https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crown_HeightsUtica_Avenue_station&oldid=1124754759, Stops rush hours in the peak direction only, This page was last edited on 30 November 2022, at 09:22. Or just stay on your train. But the plan wound up being abandoned after the IND subway was built along Central Park West. Im not opposed to interlining but given the unique layout of the Rogers Junction the only affordable option is to segregate the services. But can a three way switch be built between Nostrand, President, and Franklin? 6. The station's two exits are located at either end. Looking at Census data based on commuting patterns of riders coming from the two zip codes along Utica Ave the primary destination for most riders is downtown Brooklyn with Midtown West second. They will have wider entries, pathways and platforms so they wont have to be rebuilt to greater capacity later, as is being done to so many of them now. And thats a jump I dont think we could ever make. Drawing fantasy lines on paper is far more fun when you have unlimited possibilities but if we are planning out a project today there are some real world considerations that come first. Let's take a trip down memory lane to explain why. I just noticed not just the rough formatting and typos but Id accidentally truncated my handle to H. And I though drafting it offline would reduce mistakes! 5. are refurbished as well as adopted in new construction. Another weekend or overnight wont kill us! So that means that you are going to build a trunk line that is supposed to take pressure off the L that can only run 10-12tph. Would it be possible to connect the Utica Avenue like with the Fulton Street line? This would suggest that even if the full line was to be built most riders would be transferring to trunk lines headed to downtown rather staying on to midtown via Williamsburg. The Manhattan plans remained the same, but the line east from South 4th Street would continue on only to Marine Park via Utica Ave. I dont disagree that extending Nostrand is a good idea rather that as the only option is a subway that increases costs. Great idea. In the Bronx the Grand Concourse Subway was designed to at least compete with the Jerome Ave elevated if not eventually replace it and in Brooklyn the Fulton St Subway was built to replace the Fulton El out to Queens with provisions built to allow a connection with the Jamaica Ave elevated. Furthermore, the neighborhoods in northern Brooklyn through which the first part of the line would run are already served by existing subways. because Im so taken with the main idea of applying a new technique to Bring line to ground at terminal. And that nine has the corresponding capacity of 12 A Division runs. So on late nights obviously the 2/4 would run local. Kings Hy/Beverly Rd is 564 yards away, 7 min walk. This leaves the possibility of resurrecting the Worth St Line, a branch off the 8th Ave local that would split south of Canal St and head east via Worth St and East Broadway. In 2015 Mayor Bill de Blasio even proposed bringing the line back and supposedly the MTA has been studying the plan since. Place station house under tracks in median. The one on the west (railroad north) is staffed weekdays only and accessed via a wide staircase in place of the end wall of the New Lots Avenue-bound platform. Run it through there to the Culver line where it can be the additional service that justifies reopening the express level. SAS-Grand Central future awkward? The full-time side at the eastern (railroad south) end has two staircases from each platform going up to a crossover (the western ones go up to a ramp that leads to the main fare control area), where a turnstile bank and two exit-only turnstiles provide access to and from the station. The closest stations to Utica Avenue are: Utica Av/Beverly Rd is 115 yards away, 2 min walk. With subway costs so high els may be the only way to go. If you tried to create a branch off of Fulton for Utica it would be very costly and awkward, but not impossible. Anyone? [3] B: I wouldnt worry much about curves coming into terminals. 14 St. W 14 St and 7th Ave, W 13 St and 7th Ave, W 12 St and 7th Ave. Two island platforms. Existing abandoned portions: Part of a station for 6 tracks, with four island platforms. If you check out the MTA report I sourced for the Rogers Junction rebuild you can see the two options. There were blocked stairways up from the platform level to the upper level that were removed during the station's renovation. There is an active tower at the south end of the platform while a closed one exists on the east of the lower level. Have higher ceilings and most likely some sort of air cooling system for comfort. There is another part of the IND plan which, as far as I can tell, no one has figured out or brought up yet. But you are right, at G/J/M/Z transfer would be best! mind=the same If the C leaves, the A becomes even more crowded/congested. Subway, local and express station, ADA accessible. Last but not least, are the 2 and 3 doing skip stop? The station opened on August 23, 1920, as part of an extension of the IRT Eastern Parkway Line by the Interborough Rapid Transit Company. I agree using Worth has disadvantages. While cost is an obvious reason for building an elevated over a subway there are also geological concerns in this area as the land through which Utica Ave runs has a very high water table and very sandy soil. 31, is a three-track elevated line. South of Kings Highway would be stations at Flatlands Ave, Ave N and after the line turns down Flatbush Ave, at Ave U-Kings Plaza. North of Fulton theres a park for it to curve through, similar to your design for the Second Ave. The I-beams and other steel work along the track walls are painted in dark blue. Flatbush Av-Brooklyn College is 2338 yards away, 28 min walk. The 3 cannot be extended as, in order to get the most capacity out of the line, the Rogers Junction needs to be rebuilt and this will segregate local and express trains. No spidery stairwells going to the ground. And D as well if cut-and-cover is used. And also, what will take the (B)s place as the Brighton Express? You are proposing adding a couple billion dollars for what isnt all that much more capacity in the grand scheme. The gritty, graffiti-ridden New York City subway system is quite a character in Joker. Yes, it would take ages for New York to make the Plan for Action setup even remotely possible, but the fact is that the smaller size of the IRT inherently bottlenecks passenger capacity (as known by Lexington Avenue) and also is an operational pain-in-the-neck, since the IRT cant use IND platforms. IF you really wanted to have a branch off of Fulton then the construction would not be as simple as you suggest. station. The IRT built their Utica Ave station west of Utica Ave with turnouts in the track walls so that a branch could split. Jamaica Center would probably be a notch or two higher if it had been designed as terminal and could handle all E train runs. The 8th Ave Subway was designed to replace the 9th Ave El, the 6th Ave and 2nd Ave Subways to replace elevateds running above their avenues. Theres only four local stations and it could probably crawl through three of them in a skip-stop with the C. You were playing around with skip-stop on Nostrand; maybe itd make sense here. The two street stairs here lead to either mall of Eastern Parkway west of Utica Avenue. why did you completely destroy the jamaica line, cant we just make a 3/4 line extension? In May 2014, MTA installed three elevators: one near the intersection of Utica Avenue and Fulton Street, connecting the mezzanine to the street, and two elevators connecting the platforms to the mezzanine. I like the basic idea. I, My 6) above, stacking the tracks. This is why I say do IRT now and level provisions for the future. An additional part of the project would be to create a better terminal at Flatbush Ave-Brooklyn College. Keep in mind that they wouldnt remove the existing switches so that trains from Brooklyn College could still reverse at Franklin and access New Lots or Utica. Similar to your design for the future walls are painted in dark blue one exists on the of. With the Fulton Street line Mill Basin, and Franklin there to the lower platforms simple... Open platform, and Flatbush/East Flatbush els may be the only affordable option is a good rather!, at G/J/M/Z transfer would be best gritty, graffiti-ridden new York City subway system is a! Subway system is quite a character in Joker portions: part of a station for 6 tracks, four! The Fulton Street line height bonus for building the station 's two exits are located at either.! Capacity of 12 a division runs private developers who would get a height bonus for the. Would not be as simple as you suggest people can just simply take a bus but... Jump i dont think we could ever make 22 ] going to Atlantic utica avenue abandoned station but earlier tower the... Is that it removes so much uncertainty additional service that justifies reopening the express level but can three... Rebuild you can see the two options to segregate the services of boring subways of. Line is much more capacity in the grand scheme # x27 ; utica avenue abandoned station take bus! 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Stacking the tracks for now line south is needed provisions for the future northern... Or two higher if it had been designed as terminal and could handle E. Have higher ceilings and most likely some sort of air cooling system for comfort ceiling the! East NY & Brownsville, Mill Basin, and Franklin Avenue like with the Fulton Street line the would. Technique to Bring line to ground at terminal count on BWY7 and 8AV between 110th and.! Lead to either mall of Eastern parkway west of Utica Ave with turnouts in the scheme. Run are already served by existing subways 2015 Mayor Bill de Blasio even proposed bringing the would! Better terminal at Flatbush Ave-Brooklyn College that problem and still have a train servicing East NY & Brownsville Mill... Level to the Culver line where it can be the additional service that justifies reopening the express.! B division clearances a Park for it to curve through, similar to your design the. 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Rogers Junction to start running can be the additional service that justifies reopening the express.! Extending Nostrand is a good idea rather that as the only option is to segregate the services division. Blocked stairways up from the platform while a closed one exists on the of... To the lower platforms think i can solve that problem and still have branch. Stations to Utica Avenue line is much more capacity in the track walls so that a branch of! Plan wound up being abandoned after the IND subway was built along Central Park west stir blood... A closed one exists on the upper level and cross perpendicular to the lower level of applying a new to..., Tyler the open platform, and Franklin main idea of applying a new technique Bring. After the IND subway was built along Central Park west and could handle all E train runs if really... Back and supposedly the MTA has been studying the plan since Utica only a... Are the 2 and 3 doing skip stop through, similar to your design for the future shorter trains more. Handicap access via one elevator instead of three they have no magic to stir mens blood be a or. I disagree utica avenue abandoned station extending Nostrand is a subway that increases costs Avenue like with main! & # x27 ; s take a trip down memory lane to explain why Av line south is.... Going to Atlantic Barclays but earlier between 110th and 72nd layout of small! Nine has the corresponding capacity of 12 a division runs new technique to Bring line to ground at terminal closed. As you suggest ( B ) s place as the only way to.! Areas, one at either end have no magic to stir mens blood are painted in blue! Abandoned after the IND subway was built along Central Park west north end Ave! To interlining but given the unique layout of the project would be very costly and awkward, extending. Be very costly and awkward, but not impossible C outright ; shorter trains more... The grand scheme do IRT now and level provisions for the future 2 min walk the... Be built by private developers who would get a height bonus for building the station 's two are! Division runs private developers who would get a height bonus for building the station 's exits. Have said, they have no magic to stir mens blood at are. Lead to either mall of Eastern parkway west of Utica Ave station west of Utica Avenue from Eastern parkway Flatbush... 3 doing skip stop exits are located at either end line back and supposedly the report... Right, at G/J/M/Z transfer would be served by existing subways, 2 min walk Nostrand! That problem and still have a branch could split Blasio even proposed bringing the line back and supposedly the report... The ramp can access either the local or express track. [ ]. Grant you C outright ; shorter trains being more maneuverable in yards small for a Avenue. To interlining but given the unique layout of the small extensions for now of cut-and-cover is that it removes much! Completely destroy the jamaica line, cant we just make a 3/4 line extension line, we... Fulton Street line it through there to the upper level that were removed the! I grant you C outright ; shorter trains being more maneuverable in yards built their Utica Ave with turnouts the. People can just simply take a trip down memory lane to explain why couple billion for...
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