Hillel disagreed on this aspect, due to many converts in the Torah ( Ruth, Obidiah, Abraham etc.) We can know Gods will. What else do we know about him? You who were formerly known as gentiles. The relics of Saint Stephen were translated several months later to . The Olympic games were created to honor the gods and Emperors were considered gods. Without any clear time reference, continuing on the theme of the Apostles, Matthew does record These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions [Matthew 10:5] Matthew never said that the Apostles were sent out immediately after being appointed. When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon.. [Luke 6:12-14], Again three chapters later, When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. [Luke 9:1-2], .3) Gospel of Matthew which is organized by theme, not necessarily in chronological order. 3. The people who Paul persecuted were Diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that God raised Jesus from the dead. In fact, Paul describes himself as a ruthless persecutor who sought to stop what he saw as an aberration within Judaism. Gamaliel is reported to have offered somewhat lenient advice concerning the early preaching of the apostles in Acts 5:34-39. I interpret 6 months of silence to mean: even if no one here has the courage to agree with me publicly, no one in the world can open a Bible and prove me wrong from the Bible text on these specific points Ive raised here. Something Paul preaches repeatedly. I appreciate your many responses to this thread.as I wrote this response you have added a few more! Now, we have got a complete detailed explanation and answer for everyone, who is interested! Provocative. Mantra (noun) (Hinduism.) But he certainly does not handle the NT very well from what I have read. The issue wasnt the Torah, the issue it was the corrupted law that man attached to the Torah. . I think we take Pauls claim here WAY too seriously. Undoubtedly, most of the Jews knew who Gamaliel was, and thus they allowed Paul to speak. Paul = "little". But, Once an idea has been accepted by your subconscious, it remains there and it governs your behavior until it is replaced or changed. [ as a pastor named Bishop Dale C. Bronner observed in one of his sermons]. This became an issue in front of the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15). I tried to look for the beginning (Acts 1), because a friend Im discipling has asked to go through Acts with me, and this looks like good supplement material. How can we account for this violent reaction in a man trained by Gamaliel? No one in the pages of the Bible ever said or wrote that all Scripture, or the Bible, is all truly Gods words. I would like to check that reference if possible. Why do you want Paul to act like a Pope in Corinth, someone who oversees all aspects of the church? Gamaliel became a leading authority in the Sanhedrin, the highest Jewish court in Jerusalem. Benjamin was a euphemism for Herodian Jew btw so Pharisee or not Paul was loyal to Herod, his friend was foster brother of Herod the tetrarch or Herod something, but Herod. Paul is not a liar; he just has a dual citizenship. No, im based in Missouri. This is your only warning before being banned for incivility. They all teach we should be like Paul and we should listen to Paul without examining Pauls life and Pauls teachings in the light of the teachings of Jesus in Scripture. This notion is wrong. GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus THE crowd stood in hushed silence. For example, are we missing any casuistry from Gamaliel which might demonstrate Gamaliels dissent from Hillel in specific cases presenting unique facts? There were no other New Testament books, and the Hebrew Scriptures were the Old Testament which was irrelevant, according to the heretic Marcion.) I found Pauls athletic references to be really intriguing as well Emily. [Acts 18}, .5) Paul acting as an abusive absentee overseer / pastor to the Church in Corinth years after he abandoned them, and clinging to all power and claim to control of money and all aspects of the church ministry, while he was hundreds of miles away teaching full-time in his own school in Ephesus. And even if Matthias was physically absent at that particular occasion, Jesus is still establishing the basic qualification for having one of the twelve thrones as being you who have followed me, not someone who will follow Jesus in the future, like Paul, James, Luke or anyone else in the world. Rome is the city that sits on seven hills, the perfect place for Peter the Roman, the New World Pope for the New World Order, to replace the original Apostle Peter in the apostate church of the Antichrist. To Paul, Christianity was dangerous, and to his Jewish thinking, very wrong. Paul, however, I think was so strongly devoted to the strict teachings of the Torah, that he had to fundamentally had to disagree with his teacher. You seem to want to impose your views of the modern church on ancient house churches. In Paul's letters we see that he had a deep understanding of the law. Mosley is actually studied under Flusser. For example, Gi. The man throws his huge sombrero hat on the floor, and the couple dances around it, but never steps on the hat. My question is who is the artist who did the painting pictured here, possibly of Gamaliel? Perhaps a foundation stone? Hmmmm.. That is a good question, I am not sure if anyone has ever asked me that before! - Bit Chaser Mar 11 '17 at 7:32 The Pharisee Gamaliel is mentioned twice in the New Testament (Acts 5:34; 22:3). Even if someone wants to be argumentative and say we cant prove that Judas wasnt there at the time, we certainly cant prove that Judas WAS there. According to Jesus, which Commandment is the Most Important? Plenty of time for him to get familiar with popular Greek culture in order to draw appropriate analogies. As a result, Paul calls Peter a hypocrite for following Maase HaTorah or in English Works of the Law instead of what following what the Torah actually stated. Which is the most important? Pharisee ruled that executions created a bloody Sanhedrin and if you had more than one a year, it was considered a bloody Sanhedrin. Paul was a Diaspora Jew who claimed to have been raised in a family which kept the Jewish traditions without fault. These mostly have something to do with marriage and divorce. If you look at both the Greek and the Hebrew they were clearly called Netzarim (Nazarites) . it is not uncommon for a student to disagree with his teachers viewpoints. His epertise in Sitz im Leben however, if not normally impeccable, is usually of a high academic calibre indeed. Paul undermined Apollos and heretically claimed I became your father. However, there are other times when Paul puts his Christian beliefs and what Jesus has to say before the Pharisaical rules and is willing to break a rule or be mocked for something and instead, do something Jesus way. This is exactly what I am talking about, I have regularly posted articles on this blog saying the earliest Christians were Jewish and I often say in classes (and I am sure I have said it someplace here) that the earliest Christian theology (either Jesus or Paul) was quite similar to the Pharisees. Paul would never have slowed down on his preaching to write the books in the bible we have to learn from, so God put him in prison. Belivers in Yeshua adhered to Lev, 23 and worshipped on the true shabbat. N. T. Wright describes the Shammaite Pharisee as a militant hard-liner that was not willing to work with Rome as long as they could study the Torah, as Hillel had said (What Saint Paul Really Said, 26). Love as me, myself and I define love to be, and continuously redefined by sinful men. How can I make them understand that they should deal with Paul Worship the same way that I deal with smoking weed? In this case, that assumption would clearly be wrong. What you consider mainsteam Judaism is nothing like the previous sects of Judaism and infact evolved after the temple was destroyed. Paul said: I became your father. But I am a Reformed Anglican. Believe. Log in. Their cult leader is their hero he is always right, could never be wrong about anything specific, and he must be obeyed in all things and never questioned. He was also a hellene or hellenized jew of the diaspora as part of the culture of the greeks so he was also schooled in Greek logic and would have been knowledgeable in the classics of Plato and Aristotle, Stoism and Epicureanism. The character and position of his father. Only after the house is finished and the paint is dry can we go and paint the garage.. If the LORD Yahweh, and His Son Yeshua the Jewish Messiah is God, follow Him; but if Paal is God, follow him. Gamaliel In the Christian tradition, Gamaliel is recognized as a Pharisee doctor of Jewish Law. Jesus reminds us from The Law at the beginning, the Creator made them male and female. [Matthew 19:4, Genesis 1:27], As to the question of whether the Bible is ALL truly Gods WORDS. I see zero Biblical basis for the idea that Paul trained Apollos, or that Paul granted specific authority to any other individual in Corinth other than himself. I am not at all sure you have read my article accurately, nor really spent much time on this site reading the things I post here. According to tradition, Gamaliel and Nicodemus buried Saint Stephen outside of Jerusalem. His knowledge and metaphors have helped me relate more to what his letters say. One could envisage that the power of God was already hard wired in the heart some people through faith in his words and by grace in his blood just as Gamaliel proclaimed, A homeowner called his friend, who was a painting contractor. Evangelism is not the most important commandment, and it isnt the entire Second Commandment. Gamaliel is reflecting the Hillel tradition of non-violence and allowing God to deal with parties that against the Jews (Polhill, Paul and His Letters, 31). Heres part two of this poem this spot seems the most appropriate place, I am he who searches hearts and minds says the Risen Jesus Christ Repent and do what you did at first Dont be lazy since He paid the price, Yes, Jesus sees our sins today Dont think that He is blind But the words of paul the Pharisee Will put you in a bind, Jesus washed away your sins Dont listen to paul the accuser paul abandoned the Church in Corinth And then paul became an abuser, When you put your trust in Jesus Yes, your stains were white as snow You didnt need to wear a Scarlet Letter Everywhere you go, I will repay each of you According to your deeds This is Jesus speaking to The Church Not a business selling felt needs, For those who claim to be apostles Jesus said they must be tested Priscilla, Aquila, and Apollos Persevered and were not bested, They exposed the false teachings Of paul the Pharisee So the Church in Ephesus rejected paul And had a chance to be free, Bibliography All quotes are the words of Jesus, in Revelation Chapter 2, Do we know what language was spoken in Gamaliels school or likely to have been spoken Hebrew or Aramaic? mercer county, pa public records; facts about the roman . Sometimes, Paul was wrong. When did Paul study under Gamaliel? Galatians: Freedom through Gods Grace (Wipf & Stock, 2019). Hello A. Gazali, It seems you have a hunger for the truth. Maybe, from what I have seen of him he does not go to great lengths on anything. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. It generated a great deal of discussion, some of which was more heat than light. Are you the Patricio Abramzon who attended the Evelyn Rubenstein Jewish Community Center in Houston? Second, Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, so we can get an approximate early date for Pauls education. Based on whats happening in Israel, it looks like Jesus could be returning soon. Mantra: Heil Hitler., .2) The self-appointed Prophet Muhammad, author of The Koran. I need to refine that. This is the reason why Yeshua said that Pharisee should be the the ones teaching. Mark could be understood as the first core teachings of Peter and the other Apostles. Since the garage is smaller, we can finish that quicker. I believe that his reaction was not majorly a reflection of his upbringing and teaching, but rather of a fear that the tradition and comfort of the Jewish ways was being challenged by a dangerous liberal view (P. Long), and he thought it his duty to protect his lifestyle and beliefs as a Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee, and of the Tribe of Benjamin (Phi 3:5-5). Have heard some scholars saying that If Paul was living in the 21 century he would have had 5 phd, how true is that. Why does it make us so uncomfortable? It seems that people want to limit the intervention of God in the lives of people he intends to use. Paul said no, it ONE commandment- to love people. According to Photius, he was baptized by Saint Peter and Saint John, together with his son and Nicodemus. So approximately 1-2 years after the crucifixion and Resurrection. Gamaliel is mentioned a couple of times in Scripture as a famous and well-respected teacher. The concept of a rabbi was extremely new in Paul's time, and he probably didn't study under one. Paul has a track record in Scripture of boasting, exaggerating, and stretching the truth to promote himself and make himself appear more important than he really was. If Christianity means people who follow Jesus as messiah and savior then there is Christianity, beginning with Jewish followers of Jesus and moving out to the Gentiles through the Pauline mission. The New Testament was not written nor codified till well after both Yeshua and Shaul were gone. I can use football analogies even if I have never actually been a football player. But let us not confuse the issue with facts. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men. [Isaiah 29:13]. What was his last name? I did not see this question before, sorry. When P. Long said above that he was an ultra conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view, it made me think of this situation more in terms of the present times. So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together. And this is before Saul/Paul is even mentioned. Needless to say, many still revere Philomena and Christopher as saints. We'll address more of this in a moment. References to Paul's ancestry and youth. The term To sit at the feet of a Rav is a term in Judaism for a man (13-20) to know the first five books and the Oral law by memory. / 2 Tim. Jesus warned us about the Pharisees in Matthew chapters 15 & 16, and quoted the Prophet Isaiah regarding them: These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. For instance, Shammai believed the halachot they created that gentiles could never be saved or be in covenant and to eat with them was idolatry. TWO. When Paul began the training that ultimately led him down the road of encounter with the risen Christ on the way to Damascus, we actually have no details. BOSS PAUL THE PHARISEE [sing it to the tune of Rapture by Blondie], Im Boss Paul, the Pharisee My hypocrisys plain for the world to see I travel the land and travel the sea to make a convert who is just like ME, All have sinned we know thats true but it never means ME it only means YOU My sins are all theoretical Im the worst of sinners- but dont ask where. So if I wanted to be like Paul I could stretch the truth and claim that Marco Barrientos was my worship teacher- but really that would be name-dropping in order to impress people!, Quote from The Atlantic Monthly Magazine, January 1999 Article titled What is the Koran? by Toby Lester. Ill have to change the names on these 12 chalkboards hundreds of times in the next couple of millennia. My problem is with your assumption that just because Paul differs from Gamaliel makes him a radical Shammaite Pharisee. But Jesus said, do not take the best seats (Luke 14:7-11), and to be like a child (Luke 18:15-17). Note: ingrafted Gentiles were branches of the tree and not replacements of Israel of the entire tree (replacement theology). I will say, The Jewish account maintains that he remained a Pharisee until his death makes perfect sense since we know that there were other Pharisees who were Christians in Acts 15, and Paul still claims to be a Pharisee when he testifies before the Sanhedrin in Acts 23:6. Gamaliel the Elder was the grandson of the great Jewish Rabbi Hillel the Elder, and he kept to Hillel's interpretation of Jewish law. I find it interesting to look at this perspective that you pointed out, PLong: He was an ultra-conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view. Everyone seems to give Saul a bad rap (and rightly so) for his actions towards believers before his conversion, however, this at least gives us a context to understand him better. Jesus came to fulfill Law and Prophets and He will. You have a rather closed worldview and are blind to what I have said. Jesus commissioned the eleven With everything I have commanded you Teaching THEM to obey Jesus And THEM means me and you ! When cult members repeat their mantra, it makes them deaf to the voice of God, unable to hear God. He was an expert in the law. Acts 22:3. Did paul study under gamaliel? Perhaps in a synagogue, either Hebrew or Hellenistic? imitate me.. The Lord Our God is ONE God worship HIM.. Dont ask us! If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. Generally regarded as one of the most important figures of the Apostolic Age , [8] [10] he founded several Christian communities in Asia Minor and Europe from the mid-40s to the mid-50s AD. Educated under Gamaliel, who is still to this day regarded as one of the most influential rabbis in judaism. I can back up my view with plenty of Scripture here is just one, written by the Apostle Peter- 2 Peter 3:2. So they disagree with each other. It addresses exactly what I was thinking, and its thorough. The NIV headings were not part of the original text, and sometimes they can be misleading, but in this case I believe the heading is right on. 3) Paul exaggerating his ministry in Ephesus claiming it was 3 years night and day with tears when really it was 3 months in the synagogue and 2 years daily in a lecture hall. So Law, Prophets, scripture is what it is divided into. The message of The 11 (The narrow gate), The eleven disciples went to Galilee Where Jesus had told them to go They heard His voice and obeyed His will Despite uncertainty down below, Jesus spoke to them at length He wasnt really a Tweeter Only 3 of them wrote Scripture Matthew John and Peter, Feed my sheep said Jesus, for though Heaven and earth will pass away I have the words of eternal life and My words will never pass away, Enter through the narrow gate The voice of Jesus through the eleven Believe in Jesus through their message And eat from the tree of life in heaven. Pastor Niko Thapa. All Jews were Hellenized to some extent, perhaps Paul made more use of Hellenisitic categories after the Damascus Road, but as a citizen of Tarsus it is impossible for him to be completely and solely Jewish in his thinking. In 2019 he published a commentary. Last Weeks Reading: Evangelicals, Water, and the Theology of Paul New Ways Forward, http://readingacts.com/2013/09/09/paul-and-gamaliel/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zGS_V5mEOG4, Romans, Part 57 | The Gospel and the Religious Mind, https://unashamedofjesus.org/2016/05/31/greatest-commandment/#comment-5642, https://wonderfulgraceofjesus.wordpress.com/2017/03/08/the-commandments-of-jesus/#comment-120, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65t-OzhlmvE, Pauls Jewish Heritage (Philippians 3:4-6) | Reading Acts, What Kind of Jew was Paul? Since I am teaching through Paul and his Letters again this fall, I thought I would revisit that older post and provide some additional thoughts on Gamaliel as background for reading Paul. Its nice and tidy to say I just accept what the Bible says, but whose interpretation? Wright (and others) point out that Gamaliel II seems more, er, pacifist Acts, while Paul seems to want to zealously pursue those who are accusing the High Priest of killing an innocent man. Calling the Twelve to him, he sent them out two by two and gave them authority over evil spirits. [Mark 6:6-7], .2) Gospel of Luke time lag between being appointed and being sent One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. I am trying to understand this whole post, but think the discussion is mainly about Paul and why he acted the way he did in persecuting christians after studying under Gamaliel who was more concerned with non violent acts. The cornerstone of Judaism then and now is that although it has guidelines it also leaves rooms for free thought. You are extremely insulting to me when you ignore what was written and only hear what your own prejudice allows. St. Paul is simply an elect vessel, as an Apostle! If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. As we consider the question what is an Apostle, we should carefully listen to the words of the leader that Jesus personally appointed as first among the Apostles, and trained personally for 3 years, Peter. (Paul insisted that all the workers show respect for him by addressing him as Boss Paul.) Paul called the team of painters together and told them: Boys, we need to paint this garage and house. He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal disease and sickness. God wants to welcome anyone into His family who has the desire to seek, follow, obey, trust, and love God. Take a piece of scripture and make nutty doctrines/traditions out of them. Paul enunciated precisely the same principle in Romans 7:2 (Polhill 30). Peter doesnt point to himself, or his own words, or all Scripture or The Bible, Peter doesnt claim his own words are the word of God, and he doesnt claim that he doesnt need a second witness. May I ask which verses of Scripture you are basing this on? If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. More Wright supposition! Gymnasiums were built for these people who participated in game in which they engaged in sports naked. But Pauls teachings drive one up the wall. Paul wrote: The entire law is summed up in a SINGLE command: Love your neighbor as yourself. [Galatians 5:14, Leviticus 19:18], And again, Paul wrote: He who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. .b) What about the so-called Great Commission? Jesus and the Original Apostles knew what an Apostle is better than anyone else in the world. The moment Paul stopped persecuting the disciples of Jesus Christ, he stopped fighting against God.
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